I do believe that if dads/male mentors are not specifically invited they tend on to attend. I also believe that the mentially is that PTA/PTO is mostly women. I know that it took me a year to convince my husband to attend meetings with me. He just assumed that it was a bunch of moms sitting around gossiping. He always attended family events, but didn't feel comfortable with going to events that he preceived would be moms only. Now he has no problem attending any event.

Since my husband's parents are no longer with us and my parents are in their 80s, poor health, and live 125 miles away, if our school had such an event, I would either attend myself or ask an older friend to attend. That is if my daughter wanted to attend.

This is just to say that if you want your children to attend any events there is a way for that to happen.

The extreme point that you made was in reference to Halloween. Not to the suffragette movement. I read most of the posts until the end where I started to skim the ones that appeared to be repetitive.

It has to do with a mind set that sometimes follows a mass mentality, in which some people have not thoroughly thought through all the pros and cons and are making decisions which do not take into consideration that when times and conditions change, what was once thought to be appropriate at one time, may not be appropriate or the best decision for a later time.

Let's put it this way. This was initially a PTA program. The reason being, as you concur, that fathers have a choice to be involved, yet in terms of the PTA, nationally, 10% of the members are men. I can't say for certainty what the numbers look like in PTO but since the majority of the posters on this website are women, then it would be safe to assume that it is primarily women who are involved in the education process. It was studied and found that men will not get involved if they expect to be the only males there and are not specifically invited to attend. Hence, Take Dad to School morphed to Donuts with Dad. Somewhere along the line, someone considered the issue of excluding the mothers in this fashion. Muffins with Mom was born. I think it is safe to assume that nearly every school has discussed this topic at one time or another, some including verbage as to "or another special person" etc.
However, I think you have missed the bigger issue here. When do you stop being politically correct? And yes, politically correct is usually in reference to the minority rather than the majority. EVERYONE has something that would be uncomfortable for them. I may also add that my own father passed away when I was very young and when there were father/daughter events, my mother attended. I do not remember her having an issue with it. I was not hurt by the fact. I most likely might have been had my mother made an issue of it. Thereby, making very public my own situation. Now, I have been a daughter without a father, a wife without a father and I would not be someone to stand up and say this isn't fair or appropriate. Because I saw it as being the special one rather than the poor unfortunate one.
Someone will find fault with something.
You asked early in your posts

I believe most board members of PTOs/PTAs are comprised of married parents (I am the only one out of 20+ that is divorced),

That is not the issue in my area. Most of our board members are single parents, divorced on second families and also grandparents and yet, they still participate in the events and put them together in the first place.

You have said that you would not support this event and that your principal most certainly would not. I gather if your PTO wanted to do this, you would be very vocal in the fact that you would find this offensive and purpose to speak for other parents like you. I guarantee you, most divorced and single parents aren't as sensitive to the subject as you are. As for Donuts with Dad, if Dad isn't mentioned in the title, my ex will never attend. That is just how it is. If we didn't have a Grandparent's tea, the majority of grandparents would never set foot in the school, but yet, there are children without living grandparents...

You say that you have a fall festival instead of Halloween, a Winter Party instead of Christmas and would prefer a family event. In other words, you prefer white-washing everything in order to not offend but meanwhile, your children are missing out on the richness of diversity. And others in your child's life miss out. Granted, you state your ex does not attend anything at the school but since there is no specific thing there that invites him, perhaps that is the reason. Your child may have an opportunity here to get to know someone new that could enrich his life. I think you've looked too hard at the negatives without realizing that there could be a positive outcome in such an event.

I seriously suggest you rent that South Park.

I make an extreme point here so that maybe it will make more of an impact, but.....I'm sure you wouldn't have appreciated living in the days before women had the right to vote and heard over and over to "Just get over it, that's the way it is and that's the way we like it!"
Just because the majority of people agree with a position, does not make it the "Best" decision.

I read through nearly every post and I'm amazed!

Maybe you did not thoroughly read through my entire posts, or quite possibly I did not convey my intent clear enough, but I was NOT COMPARING DWD to womens' right to vote; my intent was to point out that sometimes what the majority of people are deeming as appropriate, acceptable, etc., is not always what is the best decision for the current time. It was NOT meant to be an analogy! It has to do with a mind set that sometimes follows a mass mentality, in which some people have not thoroughly thought through all the pros and cons and are making decisions which do not take into consideration that when times and conditions change, what was once thought to be appropriate at one time, may not be appropriate or the best decision for a later time. Now, before I get slammed (again) for insinuating that nobody on here can think for themselves, that is not what I am implying.

I've read through my posts and have yet been able to find where I have stated you all should be taking these gender-specific events away. I don't like people superimposing their beliefs on me, and I don't believe in superimposing my beliefs on others. If through a civil dialogue, one person is able to convince another person of another point of view or alternative solutions, then so be it. I have stated that I simply would not be in support of STARTING such an event at my school. I also stated that once you set a presedence of starting these types of events, it is difficult to stop having these events.

My personal feelings about these gender-specific events is based on my understanding and acceptance of the fact that societies' demographics have changed and we no longer live in a June and Ward Cleaver society - the majority of 2-parent homes do not have a SAHM and the dad as the sole wage earner, and that the NORM of the structure of the family is that there are MANY structures of families: children living with both biological parents, with only one biological parent, with one biological parent and one step-parent, with granparents, with foster parents, with gay or lesbian parents, with co-habitating parents, etc.

The reason I have stated over and over again that I believe it is better to hold a FAMILY type of breakfast is to include whatever parent/legal guardian/grandparents/etc. is able to attend and is INVOLVED in a child's life. I never said dads shouldn't be able to attend. The only logical reason I have read for not holding a family morning event is the issue of not having enough space. That being said, and given the fact most groups also hold a MWM, if this breakfast event ever was proposed WITH MY PTO, and space was an issue, I would suggest that the FAMILY event be held on more than one morning possibly according to an alphabetical system based on the child's last name. I still don't see where family events are OPPRESSING ANYONE!

I realize that not every parent can attend every event, and some don't have any interest in doing so. So, I still believe it is better to have events in which parents/(fill in the blank), who are INTERESTING in being INVOLVED and CAN attend, be given the OPPORTUNITY to attend, as many children do not have 2 parents or 2 parents interested enough to attend events.

As far as I know, Dads are never excluded in any PTO/PTA events, they may be unable to attend because of any number of factors and obligations (as is the case with many moms), but if the above conditions do not exist, then it is their CHOICE not to turn out for so many of these events. Why do they need to have a dad-only event to be motivated enought to attend an event at their child's school?

As far as these gender-specific events stregthening the family...my mom and dad were very involved in the PTA in the sixties when I was in grade school. In my grade school, PTA meetings were a family/community affair with a potluck and most families did attend. I don't believe that if we had had a gender-specific event, that it would have strengthened my family bonds any more than holding a family event.

I see we shall simply agree to disagree on this topic...and that's fine...that's what makes this country so great! [img]smile.gif[/img]

WOW Michelle B! What a great post! You have such a way with words. Keep up the good work.

Wow, what an unfortunate turn this topic took. I read through nearly every post and I'm amazed! Perhaps, being that I am from the quickie marriage/quickie divorce state, that I am familiar with more than a few single parent households. Being a Council President, I have become personally familiar with our PTA boards in all of my schools. One town that is in my council is an Air Force Base and most of the dads and many moms there are in Iraq and the board members too. They do Donuts with Dad and Muffins with Mom (originally started as a National PTA program- Take Dad to School to get more fathers involved in schools)
Many of our board members, including myself are divorced, unmarried, separated, grandparents, etc. I'm remarried and my situation is that my son's stepfather occasionally shares in the events that are for Dads. I suppose, if I wanted to be difficult/sensitive/single-minded, then I would want an additional event for steps because I know that my husband would like to be more involved.

This whole topic reminded me of a South Park episode about Christmas. It started with the Jewish family being offended by a play about baby Jesus. Then the agnostics were offended by God. Epileptics didn't like the blinking lights, etc and when everyone had weighed in with their offending items, there was nothing left.
I think the biggest lesson we can teach our children and Pearlie, to teach your own children, is that we will all have differences and while it is important to secure rights for ourselves, as in your suffragette comment, it is completely another when you start to take from others. Tolerance, understanding and respect for one another without forcing others to conform. That is a lesson to be learned here. We don't have to change ourselves to please everyone. That is the beauty of our lives. There are gender specific activities. That is okay. There are people who do/don't believe in God. That is okay. We don't have to change them. Respect them and if it is truly something that you would feel uncomfortable with, you can exercise your personal freedom and abstain without oppressing another.
I like analogies but using the right to vote, was way off the mark. Women didn't fight to take that vote away and give it to themselves. I think you missed the lesson.

As with Donuts with Dads and Muffins with Mom we DO NOT assume because kids are divorced they need a hand out but the Teachers feel funny with the Parents paying we are just doing our best to make everyone comfortable and as far as if you do not want your child to go it is before school and you don't have to send them why don't you just go to Muffins for Moms. Life is different for all and kids are better at this then the adults. At the end of our events while the busses are unloading many children are just coming in that didn't attend and many of them stop for a munchkin donut on their way to class and we love to give it to them! My husdand took extra kids from my daughters class to the last donuts and not because they have no dad but dad could't get off work. The event is still worth it.