Ok. It seems that a lot of groups are veering towards the trend of 'perks'. While I think there are certain perks that go along with any event, I am beginning to think this is getting out of control. They call them "Fund Raisers" for a reason. The idea is to Raise Funds...lol... That said, here is an idea or two.

Teachers want their stuff at cost? Fine. But you might explain that you pay for their Teacher Appreciation Lunch with that money. They want their flowers at cost? Cool. You've just taken care of Teacher Appreciation gifts. They want their stuff at cost? Cool. They won't be getting any start up money at the beginning of the year. I mean it is just another worry taken care of for you! Sometimes you just have to appeal to their baser instincts. They can't have it both ways. Are they there for the students or in it for themselves? Are they willing to give up other 'perks' like Teacher Appreciation gifts in order to get cheaper flowers? The majority will take the students, money, and gifts over flowers every time.

On the other hand, if your teachers are heavily involved in your group, run booths at your carnival and other events, I can see a 'discount' maybe. Maybe. Explain to them that they, like most of us, cannot have their cake and eat it too. Do they want flowers at cost or do they want a gift at Christmas and Teacher Appreciation? Do they want their flowers at cost or do they want reimbursement money at the start of the year? Do they want their flowers at a discount? Then they had better be pulling the same load as you are.

As for the Camp thing, I still strongly disagree. This is not a perk. This is a reward. A bribe. A purchase of one's time. Unless every student has a chance to win that trip(s), it is unethical. It is like saying 'we'll pay you with a trip to camp for your child if you'll serve'. Why not cash instead? It amounts to the same thing.

About folks wanting their fundraising items at cost: First: There should be a minimum mark up even for those who worked every event. For instance, if the cost of a bouquet is $5 and your group is selling it for $10, it would be okay to discount to $7.50 for your regular volunteers and staff members. That way, they get a discount and your group still makes money. Second: Do you publish the 'cost' prices? If not, who is to say what that 'cost' is? Figure in shipping, work (how many teachers and 'others' are there to help hump those flowers to classes when they arrive or stand outside all afternoon while people pick them up kind of work), phone calls, etc. and come up with a better 'cost' analysis. I'm saying that badly, but you know what I mean. If cost is $5, with the addition of your additional costs, the total will be closer to that $7.50 figure I gave earlier. That is not cheating them. It IS the cost of doing business!

Every group has a few parents who are always at every event working their tails off. Every group has parents who cannot attend meetings but serve the group and the school in other ways. Every group has parents and teachers worthy of freebies or discounted purchases. Every group has greedy individuals who are in it for what they can get for themselves. Policies should be consistant across the board. How do you explain that Mrs. Jones, who can't attend meetings, only worked one all-day-in-the-sun fied day event (you know those phone calls...lol...) so she has to pay full price, when Mrs. Smith attended all the meetings, worked an hour on picture day (received free package of pics) and an hour at book fair (got something there too and was indoors as well) and gets her stuff at cost? What about classroom volunteers? What about volunteers who do stuff at the end of the year? What about the volunteers who made phone calls? What about... Holy Smokes! Where do you draw the line? How do you draw the line?

Lastly: Since Flowers seem to be very big at your school, consider giving them for Teacher Appreciation and Volunteer Recognition Days. Maybe have an event where EVERYONE can purchase at cost (an event, not a fundraiser). But if it is a fundraiser, Raise Funds. It's as simple as that.

Good Luck!

It's a fine line, giving thanks to people who are helping out (and we all know how EASY it is to get people to help ), and looking like you're finding ways to abuse your position. Giving the volunteers who helped a break, I can't see a problem. Giving the teachers a break...well, that's a little much. Sure they work hard (well, most of them). But the money raised IS for the kids. I don't think asking them to pay what the "regular" people pay is asking too much. They are paid employees after all!

I have a problem with giving board members perks. They're supposed to be there because they want to volunteer their time. If something like free camp for their kid is going to be the deciding factor if they take the office or not says to me their heart isn't in the right place, and that they probably won't do the best they can. I could be wrong, but it doesn't look good. Giving perks like that tends to have a snowball affect, and before you know it positions ARE being abused, whether it's intentional or not.

Our school district is by no means poverty-stricken, so I can't understand what that is like. I would hope though, that in there somewhere are the people who would love to put unknown and untapped skills to use. Maybe it's just a matter of finding the right message to get to the parents that people need to step up to the plate. Maybe you have to lay it on the line that without officers, there can't be a PTO, so if they want good things for their kids they can't depend on others this time around.

I had sympathy for both parties in this round of threads, because I'm usually the one seen as the "squeaky wheel," but I'm also the president of a group, and I see how sometimes "squeaky wheels" are just that, squeaky, and not the well-intentioned folks they want to be.

Good luck to you, and I hope all works out OK for your school!

Hi Brenda- see my response at
www.ptotoday.com/cgi-ptotoday/ultimatebb...t_topic;f=9;t=000613
Please take it in the spirit it is intended and don't take offense. I am only trying to help.

Brenda -

I think your heart was in the right direction. Maybe allowing your key volunteers (who put in all that time coordinating) could get the flowers at cost. I probably would not go so far as to allow as many people as you stated: teachers,and others. But I know where you are coming from. Sometimes a little reward is helpful. I do not see anything wrong with a little perk here and there. I am talking "little" though. It is a form of appreciation. Heck, we have a door prize to entice people to our meetings and as a little incentive. I do not see anything wrong with that. We also, give the "all day helpers" at our Winter Wonderland free lunch in the food room. I wouldn't make a general announcement:" so and so is getting xyz for coordinating this major event" because you are always going to get someone who is like the "squeaky wheel" and they are usually the ones who do not help out much either.

When I first sent out an email regarding this subject, I was pressed for time. I should have taken the time to explain myself as far as the intent I had when proposing that board members, principal, and the volunteer coordinator purchase flowers at cost.

Last year, we had the flower sale for the first time. All teachers, volunteers and board members were allowed to purchase flowers at cost. As you can imagine, the teachers purchased a whole LOT of flowers. I thought this year we could INCREASE our revenue by narrowing the spectrum of the people allowed to participate. Perhaps I offended Nancy by the way I presented it in my email as I am often rushed to get PTO stuff done (as are most members).

Are we stealing from the PTO? NO. In effect, we are purchasing at cost. Could the PTO make a profit off from the flowers if we purchased them as others do? Absolutely. I thought --what a nice little thank you for the board members and Nancy--who has done a lot of coordinating and worked at every event this year. My intention was not to "steal" profits from the PTO as I was accused. Yes--I admit--I took offense to being called a thief (in so many words) after all of the hard work I've put in. I have spent over $650 of my own money in the past year on PTO stuff that I don't expect reimbursement from. I still do not feel I am "owed" anything by anyone.

Earlier in the year, I proposed that we try to do something to get board members for next year (I did not plan on volunteering because my plate is very full in the coming year as I'm sure most of yours is). I think it was by pure luck that we got the board members we did this year because the nominations were far and few between. I proposed that we give an incentive to the board members. Not alot of our kids have opportunities to go to camp, so I thought what a nice benefit to the kids whose parents put in SO much time and effort (not to mention money), especially in a poverty stricken school. The proposal was shot down by an overwhelming amount of people on this forum, so I went back to the drawing board and started thinking of what else we could do. The nominees all turned down the positions for VP & Treasurer this year. So--we still need 2 board members. I know the stress of the budget, etc. THIS year and knew it would be even harder next year. I have never been on a PTO before, so I didn't know that it was illegal or immoral or unethical to give "perks". I thought we could do something to change the way our volunteers feel about participating. I can accept that and move on. Others may have a hard time viewing things the same.

So--when this was proposed, it was proposed with good intentions and people's feelings were hurt because of the initial email that went out to everyone accusing the board of "stealing money from the PTO and being unethical". So--we didn't SLAM Nancy, she got a professional response--unlike her first email.

Our bylaws are being revised. It was our idea to revise the bylaws because when we started this year we were basically thrown the bylaws and not given any direction. We love the kids. We HAVE done a tremendous amount of work and we LOVE it. What we hate is being judged around every corner.

So--I am glad to hear that some of you thought that what we were doing wasn't such a big deal. I certainly plan on staying involved and revising bylaws and treating the upcoming PTO with the utmost respect for their ideas, the challenges they face and the work they do. I think if we criticize people instead of talking things out and sharing ideas, our resources are extremely limited and that only carries over from year to year.

Just my two cents.
Brenda Roderick
PTO President
Sabin Elementary School