last brainstorm: inform also the heads of all major universities in those 'paddling is ok' 22 states, ie the deans of the dept of education and the head of all teacher training programs, the leaders that are shaping the next gen of teacehrs.
they may have studies also (unpublished or inthe works) to contribute to your portfolio of substantaiation ref the study you noted above, and at the very least, if hteyre not aware of whats happening once their teachers hit the 'real world' , they should be, so they can educate their students accordingly.

Thanks for all the feedback.
This is some of my perspective about corporal punishment:
Here in Union County, North Carolina, our district has failed to provide parents and students with a list of misconducts that can lead to the use of corporal punishment. I have no clue what my four children could do to tick off a teacher and lead to abusive hitting. We know too, that if a teacher paddles and bruises a child, there is no wrong doing perceived. How many parents would hire a babysitter who brought a wooden board with holed drilled in it and told you that she would maintain order while you were gone? How many of you as parents hit your children with wooden boards with holes drilled in them? My county sees itself as above the law, yet has hit children for being tardy to class. Children are suspended for untucked shirts, even if it comes out during recess. Yet the adults do not follow state law. That is my beef, plus I don't want my children hit.
Lest you think that these horridly behaved children are in need of a good smack, 76 children in our county were hit for being tardy to class, 85 disabled children were hit for minor issues. Our county leads the states of North Carolina and South Carolina in the number of disabled children paddled, according to the Office of Civil Rights data.
Corporal punishment at school is not the answer, in my humble opinion. That opinion is also shared by over 107 major organizations in the medical, social, educational, and psychiatric fields, and these groups have formal written position statements supporting a ban of corporal punishment in schools. I agree that there are many parents who are in need of support and parenting skills. One in ten adults are mentally unstable, including teachers. I maintain that educated people should be modeling non violence in all aspects of life, to include discipline.
For those who wish to hit your children, that is your choice. I should have the choice to not have my children beat with wooden planks at school, for reasons unknown to me, and without my knowledge and my consent. My district required two signatures for my then 5th grade daughter to receive a stick of Secret and a mini pad sample, and a book on hygiene. One signature was for her to get the product, the other was to show that I had instructed her to keep the products in the box on the bus on the way home. Surely a district that requires that attention to detail should be able to follow state law.
I realize that not every county is as bad as ours, but we live in an area that fragments the parent body, and relishes the idea of catching children doing anything wrong. It is a negative, punitive culture, not just the corporal punishment. The mindset is backwards in so many ways, and I have seen that once the educated sector models this type of behavior, all sorts of misconducts on the parts of the adults are suddenly acceptable.
At the very least, it is great to know that there is a heightened awareness that corporal punishment is still going on in some schools. Many people think it has been outlawed for a long time.
Have a good Sunday all!

Sorry Tim (I know you dont want longwinded responses but I'm enjoying and learning from this discussion)

Let's step back for a moment and consider the entirety of the situation.

1) Who's responsibility is it to educate children?
Answer: Their parents.

Reality #1: Not all parent's are capable for various reasons to educate their children. Some lack the time, some lack the means, and some lack the knowledge that is required to properly educate their children.

Result: Most parents turn to the various education systems available to do what they are incapable /unwilling to do.

Reality #2: Government has taken upon itself to set up a system that uses the taxes collected from all of its various revenue sources to educate any child whose parent enrolls him in said system.

Problem #1: This system forces all to pay for a service they may never have any reason to use or even agree with.

Problem #2: This oversteps the government's role as protector and referee. In the case of the federal government, it is outright illegal. Why? No where does the Constitution allow for any such system. One of the first ten Amendments, commonly known as the Bill of Rights, specifically states that the federal government MAY NOT do any activity that is not specifically given to it in the articles of the Constitution.

Anticipated resonse: What of those too poor to provide any form of education for their children?

1)I have seen (although will not claim as fact as I cannot produce sufficient evidence to claim it such) that parents will often do anything in their power to provide for the needs of their children. If the government system did not exist, many would find other means to teach their children.
2) Throughout the years there have been those who have taken it upon themselves to aid those who have not been as privileged as themselves. Charity organizations of all varieties have been founded to provide various needs.

For example: church sunday schools were originally founded as sunday SCHOOLS. Several men noticed the children who worked all week in the factories in England during the week and simply ran through the streets in sundays..their one day off. These men thus offered schools that met on sundays and taught basic subjects such as math and grammar. Admittedly modern sundays schools no longer teach such subjects. However there will remain to be those who will seek to pick up the slack if the current "public" education system were to cease to exist.
Conclusion: Some may ask what my statements have to do with corporal punishment and schools. Corporal punishment, or any variety of punishment, is a tool of education.

Whether it is morals, math, english, or what have you, it is all a part of education.

Parents are ultimately responsible for education, or at least ought to be despite the claims, stated or unstated, of the government. It is their decision as to the manner used to teach their children

Personally I have found that corporal punishment, properly administered, helped me to build and maintain a proper discipline during the school stages and military stages of my life. (2 yr Military enscription might help instead of corporal punishment)

However I am perfectly aware that education MUST be on a case by case basis. No two of us are exactly alike. (as I think beignets said)
Attempting to teach children as if they are alike is a terrible mistake.

Even if corporal punishment were banned from schools, in a market-driven society wouldnt schools (Private or Charter) that use corporal punishment be started (because that what many parents want), what then?


PS... Email Bill O'Reilly a friend of a friend of a friend said (not Bill the freind of...) they might be revisiting the "Handcuffed 4yr old in Fla(?)" maybe they'll add the NC story to it.

[ 09-23-2006, 08:54 PM: Message edited by: Shawn ]

Absolutely (I agree with paddling to an extent) but it definately(sp?) (corporal punishment) isnt a cure all either

What I have seen since growing up (30+ years) is that the values of our children have declined. That parents (not all but many) have had their rights taken away. I do not advocate abuse, or any form of that. I advocate the rights of parents and educators the right to punish an unruly child who wont listen to reason, wont abide by the "time-out" or "detention" system(s).

Some children need something more. Not to be coddled and appeased. They need to know that crossing this line gets them this punishment.

I have heard many times, in stores, malls, etc this "Now Johnny be good or behave or I will do this or that" then they dont follow up when the child continues. What kind of message does THAT send to a child?

From my point of view, actions = consequences, if you dont back up your words with actions how can a child learn from it? What they do learn is hey, they wont do anything to me so I can continue.
Is that a positive resolution to a misbehaving child? NO. It sends a negative message to the child.

That said 'even being swatted by 'just' a rolled poster board'd probably get that teacher an old fashioned buttwhupping when they walked out the door if it was my kid

[ 09-23-2006, 08:12 PM: Message edited by: Shawn ]

I agree with Shawn that a lot of the negative statistics cannot be directly related to use of corporal punishment. The connection I'm hoping to see is that corporal punishment isn't a cure either, taking away the argument, "Sure we hit kids but just look at the results: high graduation rates, low teen pregnancy, low juvenile crime...."

I also agree with Shawn's belief that the new fangled parenting styles are failing children as well. But I guess that's a discussion for another post......

Originally posted by pegmomof4:
Mississippi leads the nation in the use of corporal punishment in the schools. The state also leads the nation in high school drop out, teen pregnancy, incarceration rates. I think that there is a strong connection. They have issues in all areas related to physical and emotional health and safety, as evidenced by so many stats.

Dont forget lack of morals, lack of respect, too many get a free ride off the govt (entitlement), lack of work ethics, just plain bad parenting (or lack of parenting).. Not to start an argument but corporal punishment would lead to high dropout rates, high pregnancy, high incarcaration?? -- sound more like lack of brain cells would be the contributing factor

Lack of education, parents and no 'Fear' of retribution (restitution) lead kids to bad chices, lack of respect 9granted no child should be beaten) but there's not enough accountability with some of todays youth and parents.

We lived in 'Fear' of Dad yelling (it only last a few seconds, too) and getting in trouble not the 'Switch' or "Paddle" - that was one an done- the 'Fear' was having him disappointed in us (hence the yell)

[ 09-23-2006, 07:41 PM: Message edited by: Shawn ]