My school has always been a PTA until about 3 years ago when they became a PTO. We have always had a Federal ID Number. How does a 501(c)(3) number come into play? Should we have filed for a new number when we converted?

NV Mom of 2;129289 wrote: I am confused, I thought, I as the parent, pay the dues and a portion of my dues goes to National PTA. When did my dues become the schools money? I gave my money to the school/PTA to pay my dues on my behalf. If they think it is their money and they resent paying my dues for me, why are they taking on the responsibility?

Good question. I think that's a huge reason why so many groups have left PTA. But as far as "why are they taking on the responsibility?"... if they are a PTA, they have no choice. There's no other option than local collecting than passing a share up to state who passea a share up to national.

NV Mom of 2;129289 wrote: If members don't pay dues, how do you know who is a member?

Pretty easy actually. A ton of groups define their membership as: "all parents and guardians of students at XYZ school." Many groups prefer this because the concept of having to pay to belong to the parent's group at your child's school is troubling.

Tim

I am confused, I thought, I as the parent, pay the dues and a portion of my dues goes to National PTA. When did my dues become the schools money? I gave my money to the school/PTA to pay my dues on my behalf. If they think it is their money and they resent paying my dues for me, why are they taking on the responsibility?

If members don't pay dues, how do you know who is a member?

Was out of town yesterday, Maggie. How'd your meeting go?

Re: some of your questions.

Cost- and formality-wise, there are basically four structures:

1. PTA. Affiliate with PTA. Get automatic 501(c)(3) status under PTA's umbrella. Get some benefits from PTA. Follow PTA's rules. Be part of the "voice" (which is considered a benefit for some, a negative or a distraction for others). Get insurance at PTA rates (most states = good/best insurance rate). Pay dues to PTA every year; dues average approx. $1,000 per unit per year.

2a. PTO that really gets its stuff in order on own. Independent. Write and follow own bylaws. Get own 501c3, which is typically a $500 ONE-TIME cost. Get insurance at own rates (typically highest rates). Pay no dollars out to any "resource" organization.

2b. PTO that really gets its stuff in order with extra help of PTO Today Plus. Independent. Write and follow own bylaws. Get own 501c3, which is typically a ONE-TIME cost. Get insurance at PTO Today rates (typically a strong discount off of what you could get on your own). Pay a $99/$149 annual fee for PTO Today Plus membership.

3. PTO that operates fairly informally. Independent. Writes and foolows own bylaws. Typically doesn't bother getting the 501c3 (making the group basically a "club" of the school). Insurance, if the group gets insured, at own rates. Pay no dollars out to any "resource" organization.

Typically, a PTA going PTO saves some money year 1 and then a fairly sizeable chunk of money every year thereafter. the first year savings are dented a bit by the one-time cost of getting the 501c3 on own.

Hope that helps.

Tim

So I've been through my bylaws again and under Article III Basic Policies this is the only mention of dissolution. I'm writing it verbatim.

"Upon the dissolution of this organization, after paying or adequately providing for the debts and obligations of the organization, the remaining assets shall be distributed to one or more nonprofit funds, foundations, or organizations that have established their tax-exampt status under Section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code and whose purposes are in accordance with those of National PTA." I have read and reread these bylaws more times than I care to admit and don't find any mention of what needs to be done. What the voting process is, who votes, what percentage, and all that kind of stuff. I was not in the school when these bylaws were written and as they are fairly current don't feel the need nor do I think the time is right for me to have them redone to include dissolution. So I asked PTA and they gave me some abrupt guidelines. Here's my other question. I've been following some of the chatting going on in this site and read different dollar amounts for what becoming a 5013c will cost. Do you have an accurate number for that. I've been going to this site regularly but also can't find out what the yearly cost of being a PTA is. It is my understanding that no dues are paid, but is their a fee that is paid to become a PTO? Does that fee allow you to get better rates on insurance. Look I'm asking you all these questions, and have absolutely no idea if I'm overstepping here, so I apologize if I am, but I'm meeting with PTA reps and my officers tonight and am feeling a little anxious. Not that any decision is going to be made, this is just so PTA can have their say. Thanks again Tim for your help. For someone who's been a PTA member for way too long, I all of a sudden feel very unknowledgeable.

Rockne;128727 wrote: Hi Maggie -

Regrettably, that "open hostility" remains just too common. Sorry you are having to deal with that. I'm sure it's not what you signed up for when you volunteered.

The "is there that much of a difference" question really is a group-by-group decision. Two key questions to weigh:

1. What is your group all about? If you're about making your school a great place for kids to learn and trying to grow involvement and being there as a third piece of the admin-faculty-parent triangle that's so essential for a successful school -- then PTOs are every bit as able to do those things as PTAs. If a large part of your group's goals is being part of a state or national lobbying voice, then PTA does that (or at least has that structure) where PTOs really do not.

2. What services of PTA have you been using? If many, then you can do a cost-benefit on that. If very few, then you can likewise do a cost-benefit on that.

The change does not have to be labor intensive. The most agita-inducing element, frankly, is usually dealing with the open hostility. You can get your own 501(c)(3) and your own insurance (if you desire either or both of those); and writing new bylaws is typically a matter of liberally borrowing from others' bylaws that you like.

The folks on these boards will be glad to help with many/most of those steps. Key thing to remember is that thousands (perhaps tens of thousands) of groups have made that switch. It's not rare or unthinkable or unwieldy or.... any number of other adjectives (adverbs?) that you'll be told.

RE: presentations and the switch process. When is PTA presenting? There should be some disbanding language in your local bylaws. I've never seen PTA bylaws without some reference. For disbanding your local, you're bound (at most) by your bylaws, not by what your told (outside of bylaws) by PTA reps. I've heard of some doozies from that end.

Tim

MaggieMack;128722 wrote: Hi Tim-

Seems you know an awful lot about the whole "To Be or Not To Be PTA/PTO Issue." I recently asked our state PTA CT) about this very issue and was met with very open hostility. Is there really that much of a difference between the two, other than the gross amount of money we pay in dues? Also, how labor intensive is it to change. Our current bylaws address nothing of this issue. I understand the draining the account step, but everything else is becoming a blur. Any advice/help would be greatly appreciated

Hi Maggie -

Regrettably, that "open hostility" remains just too common. Sorry you are having to deal with that. I'm sure it's not what you signed up for when you volunteered.

The "is there that much of a difference" question really is a group-by-group decision. Two key questions to weigh:

1. What is your group all about? If you're about making your school a great place for kids to learn and trying to grow involvement and being there as a third piece of the admin-faculty-parent triangle that's so essential for a successful school -- then PTOs are every bit as able to do those things as PTAs. If a large part of your group's goals is being part of a state or national lobbying voice, then PTA does that (or at least has that structure) where PTOs really do not.

2. What services of PTA have you been using? If many, then you can do a cost-benefit on that. If very few, then you can likewise do a cost-benefit on that.

The change does not have to be labor intensive. The most agita-inducing element, frankly, is usually dealing with the open hostility. You can get your own 501(c)(3) and your own insurance (if you desire either or both of those); and writing new bylaws is typically a matter of liberally borrowing from others' bylaws that you like.

The folks on these boards will be glad to help with many/most of those steps. Key thing to remember is that thousands (perhaps tens of thousands) of groups have made that switch. It's not rare or unthinkable or unwieldy or.... any number of other adjectives (adverbs?) that you'll be told.

RE: presentations and the switch process. When is PTA presenting? There should be some disbanding language in your local bylaws. I've never seen PTA bylaws without some reference. For disbanding your local, you're bound (at most) by your bylaws, not by what your told (outside of bylaws) by PTA reps. I've heard of some doozies from that end.

Tim