I understand that there is a termendous amount of hostility towards PTA, so I'll try to tred lightly here, but I don't think that local units always realize (and granted this is the responsibility of their state association to inform them) why their PTA requires certain proceedures and documentation. Altimately it is the responsibility of each state PTA to insure to the IRS that each of its local units are in compliance with the laws governing tax exampt status. Each state association sets up its own citeria to determine that its locals are in "good standing". In our state each local unit is required to update and reafirm our by-laws every three years, submit a copy of our annual budget, submit an annual audit (which can be done internally), and post membership dues for at least 25 members. These are all good sound pratices for any healthy group. If we choose not to do those things then our state associations removes that local unit (and its usually not the first year) from its group non profit exemption. If they do not follow these guidlines it puts in jepordy the tax exempt status of the entire association.

Now that's not a nasty threat its a reality, and the IRS is really cracking down on ALL groups from parent groups to sports boosters. So if haven't filed for your tax-exempt status you really need to do so. In addition, the IRS just passed a new requirement that ALL groups who raise funds will now have to file a 990 the $25,000.00 cap has been elimininated. My understanding of the new law is that if you fail to file a 990 for three years in a row and you are tax-exampt you will loose you tax exempt status.

Again this is not some kind of nasty threat, I happen to sit on my state PTA board as a Field Service Rep and I have personally worked with three schools this year who were called on the carpet for not filing a 990 and even though they didn't owe any tax they were still slapped with 2,800.00, 3,200.00 and 4,800 dollars in fines and penelties. Luckly we were able to get abatements for each of these schools. However the IRS will only give a one time only forgivness, after that you pay the fines and penelties.

I guess the long and the short of it is that I know from the outside and inside the PTA is not perfect, far from it. On the otherhand I think it can be very dangerous of any of us to not have some sort of accountability. Something in place that helps ensure that your groups assets are protected and the good work that is done for children can continue. PTA has a structure in place to provide that accountability and for many groups that assurence, its not the only structure available, and groups are free to make that choice.

Personally, I believe that we are stronger together than seperate. Do I agree with everything that National PTA lobbies for? No I do not, but how many of us agree with everything our church stands for or any other group that we might belong to? I stay and I fight for the things I believe in. I make sure I have a place at the table so that my view are heard. There is an undeniable power in association.

I have been a officer in both a PTO and PTA and althought I have seen wonderful things within all the schools that my boys have attended and worked with wonderful parents, it has been my work with PTA outside of my children's schools that has been the most rewarding and eyeopening experiences of my life.

Just my two cents

Hi informed --

There's a real subtle point about the politics issue that just couldn't be more important.

For most groups that leave PTA or don't choose PTA in the first place, it's not that: a) they don't agree with PTA political positions; or b) they feel they don't have a role in those decisions (which *are* largely determined by a very small minority of PTAdom). It's not the content or the process of the politics at all.

Rather, it's that being some political entity (statewide or nationally) just isn't what their parent group is about. It's apples and bicycles.

When we survey (and when I speak around the country), the vast majority of groups and leaders that the number one function of their group by far is to brig their parents together, build involvement, and help create the best environment they can in which their kids can learn and their teachers can teach.

Lobbying about vouchers (either side) or immunizations for kids or any number of other things may be great -- but those things aren't part of what the parent group is all about. It's not a fit for what most leaders 9and certainly most parents) think of when they think of their local school parent group.

It doesn't mean PTA is bad at all. In fact, I'd say that most parents would say it's great that the PTA tries so hard to do good work. But it does mean that sliding that big political piece into a place where the politics isn't a core function at all (and many would say it can actually harm the core function) is a mis-fit.

It's a big difference. It's my contention that PTA should charge $50 per member and get members individually (as AARP does). Then there would be huge confidence that all members are onboard openly. In PTA, probably fewer than 5% of PTA members have any clue about Chicago or the lobbying, etc. -- because it's so not a part of the day-to-day functioning and goals of the typical school parent group.

The biggest reason so many groups are no longer PTAs is because when groups realize the mis-fit, things become clear.

Even the independence thing is a bit of a lark. 1). As you note, PTOs can be every bit as independent as PTAs; 2) as you further note, those that don't formally declare independence are most often treated as independent; and 3) for most groups that are treated as part of the school, that's not really that much (if any) of a problem anyway. The parent group and the school are typically on the same general page.

It's certainly possible to make a difference for lots of kids (even beyond your school) without being a PTA. Are you claiming that all those groups that aren't PTA's don't care about kids outside their own school? Is the only way for a group to care about kids outside their own school to join PTA? Is it possible to do more for kids outside your own school by taking the money (that you would have sent to PTA) and combining it with work and attention from your members and running a mentoring or donor program for a struggling school? What if you question the efficacy (and efficiency, $$-wise) of the PTA's efforts?

Local PTAs are awesome. And if being part of the PTA structure and efforts is a good fit for them -- awesome. Local PTOs are equally awesome.

Tim

If you want to spend the $750 - over $1000 to make your PTO a 501C3 Non Profit it may not be accoutable to the district but if you do not...just like any other booster club - you actually are. Your funds should even be included in the schools financial audit. That doesn't mean all school districts do this or force the issue but it is true.

I know this from personal experience....the state auditor of the school district asked for copies of all financials of all the booster clubs, etc that were affiliated with the school. When they asked for ours and we did some checking we found that PTA (because it is part of a state and national organization) does not fall under that rule. If we were just a local parent group - PTO or whatever else...our financial statements would have to be included in the schools state audit and calculated in their funding and yes...that would have made us accountable to the district.

Again...all school districts would not force this issue but this is **NOT** BS like several of you have mentioned...this is fact.

You also mentioned that you may not agree with what PTA is lobbying for but every member has a voice in what PTA lobbys for. If you are a member, YOU have a choice in what we stand for in WAshington and what we do not. If you are not a member you do not. Likewise...if you are a member of a local PTO, you have a voice but you are one out of millions in the nation. It becomes more difficult for you to make a stand on issues because you don't have the numbers that the Nation needs to support national legislation.

Your choice is your choice...personally....I like to know that I am not only making a difference in MY child's life but that I am making a difference in EVERY child's life. "Every child. One voice." We will support legistlation on behalf of your children and ours - regardless because that is what we do...help ALL children.

The PTO accountable to the district was only intended in the sense that a PTO or a PTA for that matter is still going to have some accountability to the district in that they have to be a cooperative spirit between the two for it to operate efficiently. Our PTO is NOT accountable to the district in the sense that we answer to them on how we run, our accounting, our membership, etc. They do not mandate our PTO, however they do ask that we follow district guidelines. We are a totally separate entity and nothing to do with our day to day operations, our finances, our fundraisers, etc. We do have to have flyers approved before we can send them home, etc. If something goes home via the backpack, it must be approved. I'm ok with that.

Thanks for making the clarifications.

"a PTO **IS** accoutable to the school district."

While that might be true if the PTO operates under the school's tax id as a committee of the school, it's not true in our PTO or any other PTO I know of personally. We are independent financially and organizationally. Yes, we work cooperatively with school administration, and couldn't be as effective without the principal's suport. But we are **NOT** accountable to the principal, the superintendent, or anyone except our members (which in our PTO = all parents and teachers).

The webpage is older but has some very good info on the PTA lobbying and stopping strongarmed tactics and just plain BS they give about PTA to PTO conversion (which really isnt a conversion is more like a death and birth)

'P' Is For Politics, Not Parents