PTOMOMMIE--I'm thinking there was something lost in the translation between what your president told you and what you heard. Since you don't seem very familiar with the various terms, organizations etcetera it's easy enough to happen.

I'm in NJ as well--there are numerous fees the state can hit you with concerning your articles of incorporation, and believe me, depending on how fast you need them changed it can cost you plenty! I do know any ammendments have to be filed with the state treasury department and I would think if they affected your articles of incorporation that would cost you. I've the feeling that if anything, your president is probably just taking a conservative, let's-keep-it-safe-route until your "probation" with the IRS concerning your 501 (c) 3 status is up (five years from when you filed).

I'm with Bertha--unless you have something SERIOUSLY problematic in your bylaws (that is, something that would actually interfere with your organization running efficiently or legally) or something that EVERYONE has a major problem with, I'd leave well-enough alone for now. I was involved in a group where "da rules" changed whenever they interfered with what a couple of executive board members wanted to do, and they always managed to finagle it to happen at meetings when certain people couldn't be there to raise questions or point out problems with the ammendment.

Most groups I know reserve the ammendments for a specific time every year--that way the entire school knows when to bring up issues and if it's imortant enough to them, they'll show up to those meetings to make motions and to vote on them.

I have to agree with Chief. That was harsh. Since the two of you know each other might I suggest talking it out- off the boards of course.

This really is a place to share ideas and occasionally disagree.You have to keep in mind what's best for the school environment. I really can't stress that enough. There are times that I have to say no to myself. Because after all, it's not about me, it's about the kids & the school. And if changing the bylaws is best for the school than do it. But if you are trying to change them for selfish reasons, then it's for the wrong reasons.

Anyway, you two have fun working this out-off the boards- and remember we are here if you need us!

Wow, "smiles", that's a pretty harsh post. It sounds like your group is going through some growing pains as you make the PTA to PTO switch.

The reason for places like this forum is for people to annonymously ask for help, clarification, support or to just blow off a bit of steam. Mostly, the number one rule is "Play nice."

You and PTOMOMMIE seem very passionate about PTO work and the future of your team. Surely there is room for both of you. Fighting it out here in a very public forum doesn't serve either of you and has proven in the past to be quite ineffective.

Right now, you're coming at this from opposite sides. Perhaps a meeting with the school principal or third party mediator will help everyone involved in this huge change to come through it positively and with the best interests of the school and students in mind.

PTOMommie, I never said we *couldn't* change the by-laws. I said if
we
do change them then we have to send copies to all the different
government agencies that require us to. I also said that there
*could* be fees involved. I also stated that we had to pay a $70 fee for the
change made to our incorporation certificate.

I stated that our non-profit was *temporary* for 5 years. I did indeed
say that the IRS stated to me that* if *we constantly changed our
bylaws or there were problems they could deny use permanent status. *Never*did I state that any group would "kick us out". What group? We're not a PTA, there is no national organization that we pay dues to any longer. If you'd pay attention at the meetings you would know this!

Bertha- what ptomommie failed to mention is that she *did* vote in the
by-laws, *just like the rest of the general membership did*. In fact,
we, the executive board took our old PTA by-laws, deleted anything that
said county, state & national. The rest of our by-laws are the same as
they were for the past 20 years! The general membership was indeed made aware of this and we even handed them copies of PTA & the new PTO by-laws at the same time to compare for themselves. In fact, they had two months to review the new by-laws before voting them in!!

Now for the reason as to why ptomommie wants to change the by-laws- The
nominating committee chose someone else over her for an officer
position. Both candidates were equally qualified. They chose someone
else because the other person has been in the school longer and has
done more throughout the years then this person. It was also explained to
PTOMommie that she can be nominated from the floor at our next meeting.
This isn't good enough for her. She now wants the entire executive
board to be removed and a new one installed. What a joke! Talk about having a personal agenda!!! Tell me PTOMommie, just how does that benefit the
kids?

What you and "your friend" did at the meeting was a total disgrace. How
do you think you made the two people who did get the nomination feel?
Because your feelings were hurt, you had to make it a very ugly
situation. You two women should be ashamed of yourselves! You don't
"have the best interest of the school" in mind. Your agenda is purely
selfish.

You also forgot to mention that at the end of the meeting when someone
asked how to get on the nominating committee your "friend" replied
"whoever jumped over the table the fastest got it". What a crock of
s**t. Just how many times did I have to ask before 3 people stepped
forward? When I asked the teacher reps, they told me that I asked at
least 5 times. You and "your friend" bought other people along that
night, why didn't one of them step up and raise their hands? That's
right *one of them was on the committee.* We all know it was done
fairly, you're just hurt. So, instead of causing more problems, why don't you try finding solutions! And stop calling the other school in town to find
out how they do things. They are a *PTA* we're not, we have our own rules.
You know, the ones that don't fit your needs so therefor must be changed.

I'd like to respond to PTOmommie- I too live in NJ and we did make the switch about 3 years ago. As far as a fee, we were told by the IRS if we changed our bylaws we would have to then change our wording on our articles of incorp., charitable registrations and the gaming dept. All of which received copies of our by-laws. The different departments in Newark can and will charge you.Thanks to the IRS, we had to make a change and they did charge us $70.00 to change our paperwork!Remember every time you make a change, you need to send copies to all the different departments that need them.


We were also told, as all other groups are told, that you only receive temporary non-profit status for 5 years. At which point you apply for permanent status. As for getting strikes against you, thanks not entirely true. The IRS did say something similar to me. I was told that should you make too many changes or problems they don't have to award you permanent status. Which to me means leave us alone and we'll leave you alone.

I do have a few questions for you- who came up with your by-laws?A group or just one individual? Did the membership, as a whole, have a chance to review the new by-laws and then vote on them?Since you are a new group, why don't you give the the by-laws a chance to work before making changes? And what don't you like about the by-laws? Do they not reflect what's best for the school environment or do they reflect what's best for a few individuals? How does the rest of the Executive Board feel about the by-laws? And how about the general membership, how do they feel about them?

I know there are a few of us here from NJ that either made the change or are thinking about it. Let's see if some of them can also help out. I know they were very helpful to me years ago when I needed the help!

I am the Community Liaison at an elementary school where the PTA has been slowly dying for several years. This is due in part to a change in our population. When my kids first started going to the elementary school where I now work, we had a very strong PTA, but I'm talking 15 years ago. The PTA does not seem to be able to keep up with the changes in population that most of us are facing now. We have families who were never really asked to be part of the decision making group in the PTA of the past but are now being recruited because there is no one else. Does the PTA think these families are stupid?

This is not a PTA vs PTO problem, but more a problem of the parents involved not keeping up. Will these same "leaders" be involved in a PTO? Then what will change?
If they are an entrenched "old guard" whoi resist change, then it is time for change! How about if the "left out" parents take over the PTA? Could that work?
The goal is INVOLVEMENT not "A" or "O"