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Who oversees PTO's

20 years 7 months ago #58323 by Critter
Replied by Critter on topic RE: Who oversees PTO's
Run for PTO president and fix the problems.
20 years 7 months ago #58322 by kmamom
Replied by kmamom on topic RE: Who oversees PTO's
I'm with MetzyMom--take it all the way. If you can't afford to, go to Legal Aide, or see if the ACLU can direct you to someone who will work pro-bono. This type of behavior is unacceptable, and they have now drawn the children in to it. Using them to solicit funds for the playground, then using the monies raised to buy something else could be seen as fraud. I seriously doubt this is the only irregularity you're going to find. DEFINITELY call the IRS. I'm quite sure that kind of money will spark someone's interest, especially if it's not being declared anywhere. Don't take the first "no" you get. Keep calling and calling until someone takes you seriously.

If the school is not "accountable" who is? Who's EIN are they using? Naturally they aren't going to look a gift horse in the mouth if they are not responsible for what the PTO does, BUT, if it's their EIN, I would think they ARE accountable.

Next--vote the entire board out. See what the bylaws say about removing someone from office. I would think the procedures are in there.

GOOD LUCK! Don't let the few push you around. We're going through something similar here with our board and secret meetings, appointed chairs that were supposed to be voted on, money decisions being made without votes. You CAN fight, you CAN win, the trick is to be patient, get support, and lay out what your problems with the board are and how you can get retribution. If worse comes to worst and you lose the case, don't see the negative; like MetzyMom said, you fought for what you felt was right, and you learned valuable lessons about keeping checks and controls active, especially with people who are handling your money!
20 years 7 months ago #58321 by <Sadie>
Replied by <Sadie> on topic RE: Who oversees PTO's
On the coat-tails of Menzy, just make sure whomever you speak with in a DA's office of otherwise takes you seriously.

Just remember, this could take years to resolve.

UGH! passwords......
20 years 7 months ago #58320 by TheMetzyMom
Replied by TheMetzyMom on topic RE: Who oversees PTO's
While I understand melloweer's point, I think it is moot here. I think it is a given that one would find other ways to help the school. I know that when I had issues with our group, I found other ways to make a difference. My issues didn't prevent me from making a difference in our school. The question posed here is who over-sees the PTO, especially when it comes down to the finances. If no one is over-seeing the group and it is running wild, as it appears to be in this 'financial' area, something needs to be and should be done. Ask yourself how much money has been side-tracked like this (time for an audit?) and how many times (or how much more money spent wrongly) you will allow this to go on without stepping up to the plate and saying "Hey! This is wrong!". Sometimes it is the right thing to let it go, but I don't think this is one of those times. We're talking about $23K, not $23 or even $2300. I think it sends a poor message to just ignore it. Obviously the president and the principal had no problem with the possiblity of a legal action, maybe because they figure who would do that? If they thought for one minute that someone would stop and say NO, I WON'T LET YOU DO THIS, they wouldn't have done it. Let them get away with it this time and they'll get away with it next time. Who knows? Maybe they'll wait until all the playground money is in the pot before they do it again...

I say fight em in court. Even if you lose, you stood up for your group, and ultimately the children. And that, my friend, leads to a positive message. Sometimes you can't back down just because you don't want to rock the boat. Sometimes it isn't easy to do the right thing. Sometimes you have to fight for what is right...

Again, it won't hurt to find out if there is a case here. It won't hurt to let parents know what happened to the money that was supposed to buy a new playground for their children. Their children earned it, the parents voted on what the money should be spent on, and someone else decided differently and acted on that decision. What hurts is the festering that is going on inside of the folks who feel helpless about the situation as it stands. What hurts is the mistrust and misdeeds created by an act that was thoughtless. What hurts is the reality of what happened, and what will happen again if no one says that tiny little word. NO!
20 years 7 months ago #58319 by melloweer
Replied by melloweer on topic RE: Who oversees PTO's
I kind of have a different point of view on this...Personally I would just stop being a part of the PTO. Instead I'd volunteer at the school with things like AR, reading to kids, helping teachers in classrooms if needed. I'd be worried if I was the one to make the first move of going through the courts then I'd get completely shut out from helping the school in any way. My son's school is very relaxed and laid back compared to a lot of posts I read. But if I were in your shoes I'd be more concerned about how I can still help out and let someone else pick up the 'make the first move' to stop them, someone probably would if a lot of parents feel the same.
Just my opinion...
20 years 7 months ago #58318 by TheMetzyMom
Replied by TheMetzyMom on topic RE: Who oversees PTO's
I have posted many times on the tragedies of a group that is not a separate entity of the school. I have posted many times on the fact that unless the group is separate, with its own non-profit numbers, codes and ratings, that the money does, in fact, belong to the school (aka the principal and/or district) and it can be taken over by the principal/district and spent any way they decide. It was their students and their non-profit status that you used to make the money. Ergo, their money.

I would think, but don't know for sure, that if your school had been listed as a separate entity from the school, that the IRS would be the agency to seek out for justice. They would have had your group's Mission Statement and Bylaws to fall back on, and in this case that would have made a difference.

That said, here is what I would do. Get together copies of your Mission Statement and Bylaws, along with copies of Meeting Minutes and Treasury Reports. Take them to a criminal attorney or the District Attorney for your area on behalf of the students and parents. It may prove futile, you may not have a case, but I would think that at the very least, you are dealing with fraud, no matter who has rights to the money. I would also look into filing a civil action against the board as well as the principal. I know it sounds harsh, but again, you should have your mission statement, your bylaws and your various meeting minutes to back you up. Imagine what Judge Judy would have to say about this. I think you would get restitution and damages. The IRS should be contacted because I'm sure they'll be interested in the amount of money they knew nothing about... The district should also be interested because I'm sure they have guidelines as to how many fundraisers the 'school' is allowed to run vs how many the parent group is allowed to run. If the 'school' used the money differently than what was earmarked for another, 'parent promised' purchase, then the district has been duped as well (just looking for a way to maybe get the district office on your side).

IMMEDIATELY BEGIN INCORPORATION PROCEDURES TO BECOME A NON-PROFIT GROUP SEPARATE FROM YOUR SCHOOL. CALL THE IRS AND GET HELP NOW. GO DIRECTLY TO THE IRS. DO NOT NOT PASS GO. DO NOT COLLECT $200. GO DIRECTLY TO THE IRS. Get your ducks in a row. Find out if there is a way to freeze the remaining monies in your group account. Do your group checks require two signatures? If so, who's signatures?

Meanwhile, be careful how you notify parents of this issue. I don't think this notification can go home in backpacks. Send home a note instead, that calls a meeting to discuss fundraising legal issues. Advertise and get a guest speaker from the IRS. Send home a note that says you are working to correct your status as a group working under the school umbrella and will be seeking to have parents who are attorneys in attendance. Make your own agenda as a group of concerned parents. Post your meeting time, place and agenda all over town. Run it in the newspaper and on the local TV channel. Do whatever you have to do to get people there.

Other than filing criminal/civil charges, I guess the only other thing to do is chalk this up to a very expensive lesson about incorporation of PTO's in general. I would take my story to the other PTO groups at the other schools in your district and beyond.

Good Luck. I hope you get justice.

[ 03-13-2004, 10:59 AM: Message edited by: TheMetzyMom ]
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