JHB, too, makes great points.

Basically, I think any group is quite wise to do as JHB suggest and look at the pros and cons (for the *long* term) at the beginning. Looking at it for just the first year is not the best way to go.

If you join PTA and then want to leave, that's where some of the messiness comes in. At that point, you'd still have to do the IRS work (that you were trying to avoid in the first place) and -- as we've seen repeatedly on this forum -- getting out can be a pain.

On the other hand, if you started a PTO and then decided that you wanted more help or wanted to get involved politically (or whatever!) -- it would be easy to become a PTA.

The IRS paperwork savings (meaning: if you go PTA, you most often get automatic nonprofit status) is a one-year time savings. I think it's better to ignore that and decide for your group whether you'll get $800+ of value from your PTA membership every year. Some groups do. Some groups don't.

Four options:

1. Join PTA and remain forever. No IRS start-up paperwork. $800+ per year.

2. Start PTO and remain forever. IRS paperwork and costs (about $600) first year. No cost thereafter.

3. Join PTA and then go PTO. No IRS start-up paperwork first year. Must do IRS paperwork when you switch. Deal with messy PTA disbandment process. PTA dues as long as you're a PTA. No dues after switch.

4. Start PTO then join PTA. IRS paperwork and costs first year. No dues. Dues when join PTA.

Good luck,

Tim

I'll add my two cents to KC Swan. We are a PTO and have been forever. If were starting from scratch, that would likely be the route I'd choose...HOWEVER, be sure you do so with your eyes wide open. KC makes some valid points.

Independence is a two sided coin, serving simultaneously as the PTO's greatest strength and its most dangerous weakness.

Being a PTO, you save the national dues and avoid following someone else's rules, but you also forfeit the structure. The PTA provides advice, committee guides, officer training, procedures, and program ideas galore - a valuable assets to build your group and to fall back on.

You can do it all on your own. PTO Today is a great resource, and those of us on the Forum will help you. Just know what you are getting into.

We re-started our PTO 3 years ago from scratch with nothing much more than verbal history and erroneous information. (Sure, we were a 501(c)(3) - the fact everyone believed that didn't make it true! Oops, that ID we were using was invalid? Who knew? No cash control proceses, hmm suppose that had anything to do with the missing $1300?)

I KNOW that in the previous 15 years there were some great officers, records, event history, budgets, etc. - but we had nothing. It's so easily lost with just one year of lax officers who don't understand the importance of paying sales tax, keeping track of how an event was run, filing for bingo so the games are legal, etc. I painstakingly documented as much as a could while president, yet some of those binders have already disappeared. And sometimes it does feel like our group spends too much time "reinventing the wheel".

Don't get me wrong, if you are a PTA - you have some of that responsbility as well. But at least there's a governing group with resources and standard processes should you need it.

This email sounds almost pro-PTA, anti-PTO. That's not the case at all. There's no wrong or right choice. Just make sure you weigh all the factors either way and make an informed choice.

Good luck!

Good insight, as always, from KC.

A principal forcing this decision one way or the other is a pet peeve, but KC's right -- it definitely could be a tie-breaker factor.

Tim

MM: One additional thought on top of all the other excellent insights you've already been provided (hey, somebody has to lower the overall average quality, it might as well be me [img]smile.gif[/img] )

Tim mentioned the national politics aspect of PTA, but I would like to add that not all politics involve elections and legislative agendas.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>All schools in our district currently have PTA's instead of PTOs.<hr></blockquote>

If this is the case, you may find it politically inexpedient to not be a PTA.

In our school district every school has a PTA, and I'm not sure that I would want to try and fly solo. If there were a district wide shift happening, I would have no problem with my school making the change. But as things stand, it would take a braver parent than I...

We also have a very good district area council. I've said here before that we receive good benefits from the area council, but I do not directly see great benefit from state or national. However, not being involved at the council level, I have no idea how those services would be weakened without state or national backing.

$800 a year is a strong incentive to go PTO. But before making any such decision, I would see if it is possible to meet with the principal to discuss these issues. From where I sit, it appears that there is more effort required to start a PTO "correctly" -- why put forth that effort if the principal is going to flatly tell you that you've got to have a PTA anyway?

Tim,

I am sooooooo sorry - you know I'm pretty good about giving credit where credit is due . . . . couldn't have done it without our NPN guide - like our Bible (sorry for any religious that I've offended by the inference - but it's just sooooo true!) Without the NPN and my PTOToday discussion forum friends - none of whom I've ever had the privilege of meeting (boo hoo!) we wouldn't have been successful. I highly recommend membership. As far as how long do you need to belong? That's up to your group. From the insurance discounts, and discounts to the shows you get, it will probably pay for itself. It paid for us to belogn the first year from the insurance discount alone.

The NPN expert guide was a great help to our group. I'm not sure I could have done everything right the first time without it. Thanks, Rockne!