I am having the same problems. The only things different is we won't be incorporating. We are a social club filing for a 501(c)7 status. My return email address is This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.. Any help would be greatly appreciated! I'm stuck! Thank you in advance!
Gerald White
We, too, are starting a new PTO group this year. We are currently hashing out the bylaws. Is there anyone that could send me a sample constitution we could use as a guide? Also, does anyone know if there is a legal difference between a PTF and a PTO?? ANY HELP WOULD BE GREAT!!
At the show in Dallas this weekend, I learned a few things in this area.
1) The person who spoke on Parlimentary procedure, Roberts Rules, and Bylaws verified the info we've provided above about Constitution versus Bylaws and how they are 'supposed' to be set up. HOWEVER, she also said she is seeing some organizations merge the two and simply have one document, calling it the document "bylaws".
2) The IRS rep (different session) said the IRS will accept bylaws like this in lieu of an "organizing instrument plus bylaws"
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The language from the IRS instructions excerpted above is still in place. So I don't know if you can get one examiner who's rigid and one who's not or if they all accept this interpretation.
Good, I'm glad that helped you. Unfortunately, we discovered that sad fact because we got the 501(c)(3) first, planning to incorporate "later". So I'd like to save someone else from making the same mistake.
The non-profit incorporation is a piece of cake, usually a pretty simplistic form and a small fee. But my group isn't prepared to pay the $500 filing fee again to the IRS, so we won't be incorporating.
JHB-I just wanted you to know that i just talked to our state and I now have the forms to incorporate. They said it will be done in 10-14 days or we can rush it for 25.00 more ! So thanks for getting me on track, the irs and state backed everything you said about losing our status and money if we don't incorporate first ! That would have been a mess, so I will have my organizing document in time to file the exemption the end of March as needed ! Thanks
"When you stop learning you stop growing."
You don't necessarily need a "constitution" - you need to have an organizing instrument. A constitution is just one kind. Jepto - you should fine because yours is the Articles of Incorporation.
The Constitution and Bylaws are companion documents. If you don't have a constitution, you may have a charter, articles of association, articles of organization, articles of incorporation, etc. But you should have something besides the bylaws.
Pals - I'll send you a copy of ours (if your email is listed in your profile.) However, note - if you are planning to incorporate do that FIRST before you file for 501(c)(3). And in that case you'll need an articles of incorporation instead of a constitution. Your state would have guidelines for what that would look like.
If you incorporate AFTERWARDS, you lose your 501(c)(3) status and must re-apply (and pay the $500 again).
Good Luck
JHB
P.S. I'll be happy to send others a copy of our constitution/bylaws if you email me directly. I don't typically respond to "me, too" postings in the Forum as I may not notice them or may not be at my home computer where the documents are stored when I'm reading the Forum.
